Grouping ethics... - Page 5 - Guild Wars Forums

FireMountain · Jun 15, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Being a Warrior/Monk I have it mainly to use the rebirth spell in later missions that's a must spell. In the front line you can't heal others but what I do is keep an eye on those in trouble and try and go to their aid if I'm not trapped up front. No offense to Monks but the best healers are the henchy monks that is what they are directed to do I often find too many monks in there fighting and not healing. A great Monk is worth his weight in gold but don't mistake anyone for being a monk if it's their secondary profession.

davidmor · Jun 15, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I have a R/Mo20 that I only use healing spells for two things. First I use them on myself if needed, but primarily I will watch the dedicated healer and if I see him starting to take damage, I will throw a heal spell their way. With only 27 energy points, being a healer is pretty much impossible. I also carry rebirth so the party I usually group with heavily depend on me to stay alive at all costs to come back and pick up the corpses if needed. When things start to go bad, I get a lot of typed team "Run!" messages, as well as a lot of "You better run and come back to rez us" in teamspeak. Of course this is all PvE strategy. We don't do PvP.

Akshara · Jun 15, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

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It happens way to frequently, you are questing or trying to do a quest and someone just leaves, no explanation, just *poof*, gone.

I've always had a problem with people who do this, or when someone joins a party and then 1/2 way through says, "sorry guys, I'm tired" or "hey, gotta get ready for dinner" or "going to see star wars, bye" and then just drops... and yes, those three have actually happened to me in groups before. Why would someone join a mission if they don't have the time to go through with it is beyond me.

I used to have a policy of "never leave a group" and have stuck by that pretty well so far. There have been three instances where I didn't:

1) I got disconnected and dumped to the login screen near the end of a mission, one of those mentioned above where a member left 10 minutes in because "they got tired" so the party was already under-manned. When I got back online and went to the town, I saw the group back there asking if there were any "adults who wanted to do a mission." I whispered them and explained what happened, apologizing sincerely, and we discovered that two others were disconnected at the same time I was, yet the team thought all three of us just up and left.

2) I was posting, "LFG to do mission that isnt' in a hurry" while selling off some items to the merchant and someone approached me. I asked if he was in a hurry and said I needed to sell some things and switch skills around, and he said, "no" so I accepted. Not 3 seconds after accepting I saw the mission timer counting down, and said, "hey wait, I'm offloading some things, and need to switch some skills around." The mission started and they just took off... by the time I posted my next sentence, they were off the compass and didn't respond. So I politely said, "I guess you were in a hurry after all. So I'll bow out now, before this goes too far," and then left.

3) There was a party where we had one really rude, solo rambo elementalist who just constantly rushed and would take off in different directions without telling the team what was going on. She "knew the bonus" and was determined to drag us along kicking and screaming. Everybody kept asking her to wait, give directions and communicate with us. The leader even offered to let her lead instead. As the group kept dying, and getting extremely frustrated, we started talking about the storyline between us, speculating about Rurik and Althea amongst other things, during the long bouts of us just standing around while she was god knows where. This uncommunicative moron finally pipes up and proceeds to tell the group several spoilers that we didn't ask to hear. I got so fed up, I logged off.

Back at the outpost, she was there asking for a new group. I saw several others as well, and asked one what happened. He said that when I left, pretty much everybody else did too, including himself.

Guess the point is... while I agree that one should stick with the team under most circumstances, and not abandon the group for selfish reasons, there are times when leaving is either appropriate or simply unavoidable. Regardless of my supposed loyalties to the team, I don't like being pushed around or taking grief from other players, as that's not what I got into this game for. If the party is just inexperienced, or having a hard time and dying a lot, then I won't leave. I've joined many missions to do the bonus and then continued for the primary mission anyway. Yet when continuing with the mission means wasting an hour or two of my life on a miserable experience, then I'll just bow out and find another group to spend time with.

It's the main reason I've started using henchmen for normal small quests, and stopped using "LFG" messages when doing missions. I'll just sit patiently and wait for a good invitation to be posted by someone with a good name who speaks intelligently and clear, then whisper them.

JoDiamonds · Jun 15, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akshara

Fwiw, I've been told that anyone who carries a res signet into PvP is a noob, and that no respectable PvP team would carry them.

Definitely a matter of opinion, or at least debatable. Some character setups really do just have room for it, others don't.

Quote:

Bottom line is... nobody is going to tell me what skills to eqiup in my own build, regardless of how authoritarian they come across with their tone.

That's fine. People may not want to group with you, either, so that everyone can get what they want.

Do what -you- want, but I will get upset when I find the last guy standing was too selfish with her skill choices to bring rez signet. -I- want to play with team players, and frankly I don't think you are too commited to being a team player if you don't bring any ressurection at all.

Of course, a lot of players here repeatedly say that the *only* person responsible for keeping you alive is you, which I don't consider true. It *is* your responsibility, but it's the responsibility of everyone around you, too. That's the mindset I'd prefer to play with (both myself and those around me).

In part, I play with other players because I need their help, not just because I happen to like company or find it convienent. When we're actually out adventuring, I certainly do expect help.

Eclair · Jun 15, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

I generally bring a res signet with me, except for when I need to bring 2 SoCs . However, in those missions I make sure to sacrifice myself to let the monk get away if the situation ever arises XD

Akshara · Jun 16, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Do what -you- want, but I will get upset when I find the last guy standing was too selfish with her skill choices to bring rez signet. -I- want to play with team players, and frankly I don't think you are too commited to being a team player if you don't bring any ressurection at all.

I wholeheartedly agree about doing what's best for the team, and adjusting to fit the party. I like playing in good groups that utilized teamwork, tactics and foresight.

Though you read my original post, I do think that it was misunderstood. One of the first things I do is bring up the res signet issue, and explain that I don't have one. This usually starts a discussion about it, and if there are a lot players who already have or can easily equip one without messing up their skill setup, then I just go ahead without one and focus on keeping those who do alive. I'll sacrifice my character before letting one with a res signet go down... don't see how that's not being a team player.

If during the discussion we discover that not enough people have them, or that there's no one in the party with a res spell itself, then I'll equip a res signet if it's necessary... and I've done so many times. But my build is very specific, and I use multiple skills in combination with one another, so losing a slot to a res signet isn't a casual choice. More often than not, I'll end up giving up my self heal skill for the res signet, which puts more pressure on the party's healers. And I tell them before we go out that I've got the signet, but will need more help in the healing department to carry it.

My apologies for my tone in that response... I'm just a little sensitive to others telling me how I should handle my own build, or talking to me like I'm a noob who doesn't know what he's doing. Both of those happen far too frequently, and often times during ingame play itself.

MaglorD · Jun 16, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireMountain

Being a Warrior/Monk I have it mainly to use the rebirth spell in later missions that's a must spell. In the front line you can't heal others but what I do is keep an eye on those in trouble and try and go to their aid if I'm not trapped up front. No offense to Monks but the best healers are the henchy monks that is what they are directed to do I often find too many monks in there fighting and not healing. A great Monk is worth his weight in gold but don't mistake anyone for being a monk if it's their secondary profession.

I have Warrior, Ranger, Elementalist, Mesmer and Monk as characters. All I can say is the best healer is NOT the henchy monk. You just haven't come across an uber monk healer yet...

JoDiamonds · Jun 16, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Fair enough, Akshara, fair enough. Communication far outweighs anything else, and it sounds like you are better at it than most players.

watcher99 · Jun 17, 2005, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Greetings all, this has been a very interesting discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

Rezzing is the responsibility of the entire party

I completely agree here. What burns me is when the "assume leader" giving order is late with the order and then you end up biting it. Then the remaining party with a Mo decides not to res you for biting it instead of following the leader's instruction. Come on, I think this is being a bit petty. Anyone else agree with me. Iregardless of what happens to get a party member killed, if you can res that person you should for the good of the party. needless to say I left that mission after speaking my mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

Communication far outweighs anything else

Amen to that. Communicate clearly and early enough for all member to prepare. Some member (casters) don't hang in the front of the party and if you trigger something that spawns monster in a rear area, don't expect the rear caster to be able to follow your command in time before being eaten. Don't get too angry if every now and then something does go the way you ordered, now if it happens again and again then that's different. And never as a leader leave a party member behind (dead) if it can be helped. People like to be part of the team (even bad player). Res then and lead on for as long as you can stand or until you finish the mission. But purposely allowing your party to leave a dead party member dead is wrong as a leader and wrong as a team.

Another annoying practice is for non-energy dependent leader to speed thru area without any respect for the caster who are still recooping energy and then getting mad because the caster wasn't able to assist with expensive aoe spells. Good groups understand the needs of other members of the party. If you just got aggro and everyone took a lot of heat, then the wisdom would be to hang out a bit to let the healer get some energy back before running off like an idiot again. (sorry, for venting a bit just needed to get it off my chest

).

Ukion Monkey Jumper · Jun 17, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

[QUOTE=davidmor]I have a R/Mo20 that I only use healing spells for two things. First I use them on myself if needed, but primarily I will watch the dedicated healer and if I see him starting to take damage, I will throw a heal spell their way. With only 27 energy points, being a healer is pretty much impossible. I also carry rebirth so the party I usually group with heavily depend on me to stay alive at all costs to come back and pick up the corpses if needed. When things start to go bad, I get a lot of typed team "Run!" messages, as well as a lot of "You better run and come back to rez us" in teamspeak. Of course this is all PvE strategy. We don't do PvP.[/QUOT

i,am a lvl 19 R/mo and basically i heal probaly more than the healer(because healer these days are retarted) but when the healer starts to take dmge thats when i hit Healing breeze and try to assist them wht really piss's me off is when every one thxs the healer and tells me "why arnt u doing your job !" usally i say "i was healing u more than the healer ' thne the healer says somthing lik "lier u guys suck" *poof* thne every one flames at me i mean WTF !!!!

blkbelt · Jun 18, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29

im a little confused. im new to this but what benefits does a primary healer get?
is it the satisfaction of helping? i just want to know. this is an interesting topic. are pure monk healers hard to come by?

EmperorTippy · Jun 18, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkbelt

im a little confused. im new to this but what benefits does a primary healer get?
is it the satisfaction of helping? i just want to know. this is an interesting topic. are pure monk healers hard to come by?

Pure monk healers are pretty hard to come by and as for benifits I wont start a flame war. Use the search funcyion there are many many threads devoted to the pros and cons of many different healing builds.

BTW sorry for any spelling errors I'm dsylexic and its 4:30 in the morning

Sleep Time

blkbelt · Jun 18, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04

thanks for your speedy reply, but i'll be more specific. if i wanted to be a pure healing monk, what satisfaction do you receive by being a monk. isnt it boring just to heal? unlike getting into battle with a warrior in the front lines. is the monk the "un-sung" hero?

Nosajio · Jun 19, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkbelt

thanks for your speedy reply, but i'll be more specific. if i wanted to be a pure healing monk, what satisfaction do you receive by being a monk. isnt it boring just to heal? unlike getting into battle with a warrior in the front lines. is the monk the "un-sung" hero?

Absolutely unsung, but beyond useful. Granted, I've not played a healing class in this game, but I have in many others that have kept me more on my toes than anything else. In Guild Wars, I'm a W/N, and typically have my auto-pilot kick in waaay too much. I think gamer's minds are too narrow on what a "victory" or what a "hero" is. Players are way too concerned with being UBER GODZ!!!11111oneoneoneone. But if you're dedicted to healing, I'm quite confident in saying you'll be busy, important, and entertained. Whats the difference between clicking on some monster, and clicking on another player? I mean, thats all that changes when you delve into the realm of healing.

As far as players ditching, and/or being single-minded, self-important idiots, I typically use this method for making parties:
"Play with people you know, and network from there."
Its definitly slow as far as growth, but you'll get reliable teamates, who are willing to work with you, learn from you, and teach you. And even if you put less time, and effort into a game, you get a good quality output in the end.

Trouble is, if you don't have friends who play, or friends of frends who play, that'll be hard. Fortunately for me, I got a solid group of gaming friends, who have a group of gaming friends -- yadda yadda.

JoDiamonds · Jun 20, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

It's pretty much a matter of opinion about "benefits" in terms of real fun. I really like my healer characters, and it's exciting to be barely keeping people alive, and many players DO thank you when you save them or even just rez them (which is usually when I feel worst, because I may have screwed something up... but of course I feel that way even when not playing my healer, because anyone's screw up can result in someone else dying).

Jun 15, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23	#81
FireMountain Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2005	Being a Warrior/Monk I have it mainly to use the rebirth spell in later missions that's a must spell. In the front line you can't heal others but what I do is keep an eye on those in trouble and try and go to their aid if I'm not trapped up front. No offense to Monks but the best healers are the henchy monks that is what they are directed to do I often find too many monks in there fighting and not healing. A great Monk is worth his weight in gold but don't mistake anyone for being a monk if it's their secondary profession.

Jun 15, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55	#82
davidmor Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peoples republic of New York	I have a R/Mo20 that I only use healing spells for two things. First I use them on myself if needed, but primarily I will watch the dedicated healer and if I see him starting to take damage, I will throw a heal spell their way. With only 27 energy points, being a healer is pretty much impossible. I also carry rebirth so the party I usually group with heavily depend on me to stay alive at all costs to come back and pick up the corpses if needed. When things start to go bad, I get a lot of typed team "Run!" messages, as well as a lot of "You better run and come back to rez us" in teamspeak. Of course this is all PvE strategy. We don't do PvP.

Jun 15, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46	#85
Eclair Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005	I generally bring a res signet with me, except for when I need to bring 2 SoCs . However, in those missions I make sure to sacrifice myself to let the monk get away if the situation ever arises XD

Jun 16, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07	#88
JoDiamonds Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New England	Fair enough, Akshara, fair enough. Communication far outweighs anything else, and it sounds like you are better at it than most players.

Jun 17, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43	#90
Ukion Monkey Jumper Ascalonian Squire Join Date: May 2005	[QUOTE=davidmor]I have a R/Mo20 that I only use healing spells for two things. First I use them on myself if needed, but primarily I will watch the dedicated healer and if I see him starting to take damage, I will throw a heal spell their way. With only 27 energy points, being a healer is pretty much impossible. I also carry rebirth so the party I usually group with heavily depend on me to stay alive at all costs to come back and pick up the corpses if needed. When things start to go bad, I get a lot of typed team "Run!" messages, as well as a lot of "You better run and come back to rez us" in teamspeak. Of course this is all PvE strategy. We don't do PvP.[/QUOT i,am a lvl 19 R/mo and basically i heal probaly more than the healer(because healer these days are retarted) but when the healer starts to take dmge thats when i hit Healing breeze and try to assist them wht really piss's me off is when every one thxs the healer and tells me "why arnt u doing your job !" usally i say "i was healing u more than the healer ' thne the healer says somthing lik "lier u guys suck" poof thne every one flames at me i mean WTF !!!!

Jun 18, 2005, 08:29 AM // 08:29	#91
blkbelt Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005	im a little confused. im new to this but what benefits does a primary healer get? is it the satisfaction of helping? i just want to know. this is an interesting topic. are pure monk healers hard to come by?

Jun 18, 2005, 09:04 AM // 09:04	#93
blkbelt Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jun 2005	thanks for your speedy reply, but i'll be more specific. if i wanted to be a pure healing monk, what satisfaction do you receive by being a monk. isnt it boring just to heal? unlike getting into battle with a warrior in the front lines. is the monk the "un-sung" hero?

Jun 20, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43	#95
JoDiamonds Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New England	It's pretty much a matter of opinion about "benefits" in terms of real fun. I really like my healer characters, and it's exciting to be barely keeping people alive, and many players DO thank you when you save them or even just rez them (which is usually when I feel worst, because I may have screwed something up... but of course I feel that way even when not playing my healer, because anyone's screw up can result in someone else dying).